Science AND Beauty with Nicolas Hieronimus

Ilham Kadri: Hello everyone. Today, I am delighted to welcome Nicolas Hieronimus, the CEO of L'Oreal to the AND is the future podcast. Hello Nicolas. So happy to see you. Nicolas in fact has spent most of his brilliant career at L'Oreal starting off in 1987 as a Product Manager on the Garnier brand and working his way up to the top with many impressive accomplishments to becoming today a CEO of the largest cosmetics company in the world. And I can't wait for what will no doubt be a fascinating discussion, I know you will enjoy it, about science and beauty. Nicolas, thank you so much for being here with me today. 

Nicolas Hieronimus: Well, thank you, Ilham, for having me. It's a pleasure to be talking to you and your teams.

Introduction to the beauty industry

Ilham Kadri: I always start this way, Nicolas. I always start by asking one of my favorite questions. I love to hear about what motivates  you and people in general. I know you grew up in Paris, a city full of beauty, right? And I was wondering if you could tell me and us about that, and was there a moment in your life, Nicolas, that really put you on the path to your career in the beauty industry? Is it something unusual for I'll do a stereotype if I may for men, and I know you also had many other interests, including oceanography so tell us more. 
Nicolas Hieronimus: Yeah, it's true that when I was in high school, my dream was to be Mr. Cousteau, to be an oceanographer, sailing the seas of the world and swimming with dolphins. And then I realized that in order to get there, you had to be great in chemistry at school, which was absolutely not my forte, contrary to you, which is why I have a lot of admiration for you. So I was not really good. I was better in topics around communication around, where the premises of marketing and, you know, when I was, I started really my higher studies in the beginning of the eighties, and it was the rise also of communication, of advertising, of great campaigns that were, influencing consumers and that got my interest. And it's true also that having had my childhood in Paris, where I enjoyed particularly when I was a teenager and a student, the wonders of Parisian nightlife, being exposed to this world which blends music, fashion, of course, looks.  And I got attracted. When I had to choose my company, I was interviewed by several companies, some in food, some in other areas, but I have to say that L'Oréal, I was not really into beauty, aside that I was probably using tons of gel on my hair. But when I entered L'Oréal, I saw this mixture of art, of creativity, and of being constantly with your finger on the pulse of the of the time and that attracted me and it's been the company of my life because as you said, I've been with L'Oréal for the last 36 years. I even met my wife at L'Oréal, so it's really a company of a lifetime. 

Taking professional risks that pay off

Ilham Kadri: So, a loyal man to the company, and even finds love in the beauty company. So, that's fantastic. And there are many youth and less younger people listening, right, Nicolas to this podcast.And they would like to hear from our guests, their career trajectory.
And the milestones, you know, you reach and along the way. Can you explain a bit more about that and some of the risks you took? I heard that you tell a great story about a risk that paid off a big time with the Garnier brand, for example.
Nicolas Hieronimus: Yeah, well, first of all, I have to say that, you know, I was lucky to enter a company that allows you to change all the time, to never get bored, and at the same time to stay in the company, because there are many, many different jobs. L'Oreal is a global company. We're in 150 countries. We have products that sell in luxury, others in the mass market. So. you can change jobs while staying true to your roots and what you've learned. So. that's fantastic. And in my career, I started as a Product Manager just for fun. My first title at L'Oréal was Invisible Product Manager. Because I was given the responsibility of a hairspray from Garnier called Invisible. So, that was how I started. Now I'm a bit more visible. But then I alternated, regularly,  operational functions like running a business in the UK or being the CEO of L'Oréal in Mexico and more creative businesses like leading the L'Oreal Paris brand, globally, or then being President of several divisions. 
And of course, I don't think I took huge personal risks, but I took professional bets that ended up being risks. And there are two that I think are important. One is when I was Marketing Director of Garnier from 93 to 96, I was asked to create a very efficient haircare range. And I, at the time with my teams, we created Fructis, which was breaking all the codes of serious hair care because it had to be white, it had to be creamy, it had to smell clean, and with something that was fluorescent green, that had the fruit fragrances, and that was unisex instead of showing only beautiful women with shiny hair. So, I had to-  it was hard to convince the most experienced leaders of the company and even the markets to launch it, but it's been a stunning success and still one of the big brands of L'Oreal. 
And there's another one which I like, when I was President of the Professional Division of L'Oreal, which sells products to hairdressers back in 2008. We're in just in the middle of the Lehman Brothers crisis, the world's collapsing and people, you know, are switching off many things, including going to hairdressers. And there are many hairdressers that are considering their future with a certain level of anxiety. And I decided two things. One is to take a big bet on a new technology from the labs, which led to the creation of the hair color Inoa, which has an oil delivery system. It was the first permanent hair color using oil to avoid using ammonia. So, a real technology breakthrough. Frankly, it was not totally ready, but I pushed everybody to launch it in a year because I said, 2009 is the 100th anniversary of L'Oréal. We have to bring all the hairdressers of the world to Paris to celebrate the rebirth of their industry, tell them their industry has a future and give them new technology to help them create that future. And in a year, we developed Inoa and we had 4,000 stylists in Paris. Huge parties, of course, as always with stylists, but also a presentation of the future of hairdressing. And I think it was great because it was, first of all, a great company mobilization. It gave a vision to partners that were probably doubting their own future, and it ended up being another success. So in the end, in both cases, what I find interesting is that there's the will to disrupt and to be unexpected. And as beauty is an offer market, you always have to be able to disrupt and be unexpected.

Being a purpose-led company

Ilham Kadri: But that's great, Nicolas, and you are giving us great wisdom. It's also about leadership. So, being disruptive, going to tackle the opposites and making big bets. That's what you are saying on new technologies, challenging your team, finding the right, this 4,000 stylist party, to launch it. And I loved being the Invisible Product Manager to becoming the most visible CEO of one of the greatest beauty companies in the world. So,I love it. So, tell us now about the purpose, right? L'Oréal is a purpose-led company. Can you tell us more about the company's purpose and how you got there?
Nicolas Hieronimus:  Three years ago, we decided to write a purpose for the company. We had a mission, which is to bring beauty to all, beauty for all. But we felt the need to write a purpose because I guess like you, we know that the younger generations, they like to work for companies that, of course, are successful, pay them good salaries, give them career perspectives, but also, work for, I would say, a better society. And at L'Oréal for, you know, for more than a century, we've always been a company that was very dedicated to having a positive impact on society, way before we're talking about CSR. From, you know, gender parity to helping women when they were having kids, or stopping animal testing, there's been many things. And, of course, more recently, we have embarked, and really early days on our sustainability transformation, which I guess we'll be talking about with our Sharing Beauty With All program and now L'Oreal for the Future, our D&I. 
And in the end, we were doing a lot of things without saying it and we thought that it was time to encompass all the actions of L'Oréal and why we're doing business in this sense of purpose. So, we wrote that line, which is just the conclusion of a long manifesto, which I won't read you, but the line is to create the beauty that moves the world. And I like this line because, and it's much better in English than in French, because moves has two meanings. Of course, one is to change things. And that's true that, you know, inventing, using green sciences to replace petrochemical-derived ingredients with biotech ones, or reducing our packaging is a way to move the world. But moving is also about emotion. And beauty is about emotion. It's about bringing people self-confidence. It's about creating emotions between human beings. So, we wrote that line. Of course, we actually had the employees and external stakeholders contribute to the creation. And now we are communicating on it and I have to say that the impact is very positive. It's fantastic on our employees, on our candidates, and it's progressively trickling to the consumers that see that L'Oréal is not just about selling shampoos but about having a real intention to improve society.

Being sustainable AND profitable

Ilham Kadri: Absolutely. And there is so much on self-confidence and, you know, on the insights principle, right? And the impact of what L'Oreal and your purpose is doing for people.  As you know, Nicolas, the beauty that moves the world just doesn't talk about beauty products only, as you said and, this podcast is about putting some opposites together, right? It's about the power of the AND. And one of the sweet spots I like to talk about is to be sustainable and profitable. And L'Oreal, I mean, you are an icon and a beacon for that. Not only do you want to enhance the beauty of the environment, nature, of human beings, but you do that and you impact the world positively, and at the same time, you are achieving outstanding financial results. So, can you tell us how you manage both. How you drive the best-in-class sustainability initiatives we are all following a bit. At the same time, you are delivering just outstanding financial results.
Nicolas Hieronimus: Well, first of all, thank you for praising the work of the whole team, because it's true that this transformation and this paradox, which is to some extent to decouple success from  environmental footprint, is really a company commitment. You know, we started our first environmental research laboratory at L'Oréal in 1995. We had our first sustainability program, our first targets in 2009, and the program starting in 2013. So, it requires a lot of drive and commitment.  Between 2013 and 2020, we've reduced our CO2 emissions by around 90% whilst increasing our volume by 40%.
So, this decoupling happens, but you know, it would not be fair to say that it's a walk in the park because reducing is easy. Going to a net zero, which is the ultimate objective, is harder. And that's where, by the way, we need our partners upstream from Scope 3.
I think because we are an offer-driven market and innovation is really at the heart of our business model, we use innovation to transform ourselves. So, every new product is designed to be improved versus the previous one. People are incentivized on this, including myself.
So, it adds an extra incentive if we needed one, but it all goes through innovation. It's getting harder and harder, but we are constantly trying new things, like involving the consumer, for example, in this transformation.The consumer says he wants to be sustainable and have good products, but it's not always easy, so we have to give them these products that are both sustainable and good. And therefore we, for example, create a lot of refills. All our new fragrances, all our fragrances now are refillable. And we sell, you know, very packaging light refills, and that are much cheaper for the consumer. So, it helps the consumer reconcile their personal interests and their collective commitments.
So, it's something we are all committed to. And to some extent, I would say, and you know that better than I do because you're also engaged in this transformation, we have no choice. We have to be successful and sustainable. And I think in the future, any company that's not both successful and sustainable will disappear. So, if some of our competitors or your competitors are not doing it, too bad for them, but we have no choice. We owe it to our kids, we owe it to the companies we run.

Tech for beauty

Ilham Kadri: But it's great to see it from the top, Nicolas, that when a CEO and a leader of a company like L'Oreal has that, you know, the tone at the top, inside the company, outside the company, when your employees embark like you do with great engagement. And frankly, again, you are inspiring all of us because you do it with profitability. And that's what it's all about. Impact the planet, impact the pockets. And you show initiative, including, as you said, Scope 3 and embark with your suppliers. Let me now move the needle a bit, Nicolas, about Obviously, there is this word of digital.
I'm a digital immigrant, so I'm learning. I mean, I try to claim that I like smart devices, all of this, but the word is convulsion. And L'Oreal has the ambition to become the first beauty tech company incorporating AI, digital, metaverse. And I mean, I've practiced some of those tools on the board, C-suite, but we've heard a lot about tech for good.
And you are aiming for the tech, for beauty, what does this mean? Is it a hype, Nicolas? Or is it a real transformation you are going through?
Nicolas Hieronimus: No, it's a real transformation. First, You know, if I go a little bit back in time, in 2010, which was the time of really the acceleration, the rise of smartphones and putting digital tools in the hands of many consumers.
Jean-Paul Agon, my Chairman and predecessor as a CEO, declared 2010 the year of digital. Frankly, we didn't know what it really meant. But as always at L'Oréal, we decided to jump on it. And we became, what I call today, a digital-first company where e-commerce represents 28 percent of our sales. Where we have acquired an augmented reality company in Canada called Modiface that allows consumers to try on lipsticks, hair color on their phone and on their face before buying them, which by the way was a huge help during COVID when people were stranded home and the only way for them to try a new color of lipstick was through their phone and to buy it through their phone.
So, we had that transformation. And today, in digital, aside from the weight of e-commerce, we have globally  40 million users every year of our services which are basically diagnosis or try-ons. And that's just the beginning, because as you say, it's not a hype. It's the fact that technology is changing the world at the speed of light and is developing itself at the speed of light.
I mean, this summer, we've all been talking and trying ChatGPT, DALL-E, MidJourney. And look, you know, a year ago, nobody knew what Gen AI was. And of course, this will have an impact on the way we work, on the way we create, on the way we eliminate menial tasks, cumbersome tasks for our people.
And so technology is offering thousands or millions of possibilities and becoming a beauty tech company is precisely using technology. And a lot, of course, around data to augment beauty, augment the performance of our products. And we do it several ways with tools, with devices.
And you've used some, whether it's little machines that create your own little lipstick, matching the color of your dress every day.

Nicolas Hieronimus: Whether it's a device that uses both light, serum or massage together to enhance its efficacy. Next year, we're going to be launching a tool to apply hair color on your own without creating any mess. So there are a ton of diagnoses, which is very important.
Diagnosis are very important because there are thousands,  hundreds of thousands of beauty products and every person is a bit lost. A way to analyze their skin or hair and recommend the right product is the best way to increase their satisfaction.
And of course, we're using tech internally to augment our researchers, for example. We use AI to create new formulas of hair color or to reformulate hair color to match new legislations at the speed of light. So, it's really - you know, we're a company founded by a scientist, a chemist.  So, science has always been at the heart of our business.

The importance of psychological safety in the workplace

Ilham Kadri: So, you were saying, Nicolas, that obviously L'Oreal is a science company and that is transforming and going to a tech beauty company, right? And indeed, it's amazing how you can transform a space like beauty, right? With tech innovation, which you talked about. So, let me now move on to some leadership, you know, advice, wisdom and to the youth, to the ambitious leaders who want to follow in your footsteps, right?
I've heard you talk, Nicolas, about the importance of psychological safety when I spoke with you and I heard you in some board meetings to ensure that your team can challenge you without worry. And I love this. And I heard you say some great things about self-care. Can you elaborate for our listeners?
Nicolas Hieronimus: Your question was around leadership and the question is how are you a good leader? Which is frankly, a difficult question. And I think the first thing is to, of course, surround yourself with the best possible team.
So, know what you're good at, know what you're not so good at and hire people or build your team with people that are better than you in their specialty or that compliment you. And of course, create that psychological safety that you were talking about. Because in the end, the real recipe for success is having great minds sharing their ideas without fear of being either criticized or mocked.
And therefore, creating this, the safe space where people can contradict you and should, bring ideas, and brainstorm together is super important. So, the quality of the team and the safety that you provide them is very, very important. I think it's super important also to be always curious, whether it's in your early career or when you're already at the top, always wanting to learn.
That's why we spend so much on learning at L'Oréal, you know, millions of hours of training are provided to everybody, but at every level, including at the Executive Committee. We constantly need to be trained up, like sports people, to learn new disciplines. We're talking about Gen AI. We all had to discover what it is and what it could do, and learn about it. Of course, you've got to want to perform and to deliver on your results. But I draw a lot of parallel between business and sports. So, you have to train, you have to learn, you have to challenge yourself, and you also have to find ways to rest. Because I think it's very, very important when you do high competition sports, you need breaks,  you need holidays, you need disconnection. 
And by the way, we've set up for employees a very important, very interesting new approach for our employees within our Simplicity 2 program, which is that,  first of all, people are - except if there is an emergency - are forbidden to send emails and texts or WhatsApps on weekends or after working hours. 

Introducing Warm Up Mondays

And then we've created what we call the Warm Up Monday. So, when you arrive on Monday morning, there's no meetings. You can do an interview every now and then, but there's no meetings. That's the moment when you read your mails, the ones that have arrived on the Monday morning when you prepare for your week.
And it's, it's something we imagined after discussing with Fabien Galthié, who was doing a lot on the need to allow your brain and body to rest from competition. So, I think it's an interesting advice for  any manager but also any employee, you have to perform but also to take a few breaks.
Ilham Kadri: Yeah. Do you  follow that, Nicolas? Warm Up Mondays, read your emails, no interviews.
Nicolas Hieronimus: No, I do follow that. Of course, I work on weekends. I would be lying if I didn't say that. I'm working probably every Sunday. But I program all my emails to be sent on the Monday morning at 8, which means that nobody will receive an email from the CEO in the middle of the weekend, and suddenly, get an electric shock and feel that they have to answer immediately. So, I respect that and I don't send messages to anyone. And when I come on Monday mornings, I do one-on-one meetings. So, these are allowed, but I don't organize big meetings where everybody would have to prepare something for me, etc. Probably the only exception is when I travel to a country because then we have to make the most of my presence there. But yes, I respect it and people like it.

Promoting diversity in science and beauty

Ilham Kadri: Yeah, that's great, great to hear that. Yeah, because we need to care about ourselves, right? To be at our best. So let us, before we close this fabulous interview, let us talk about DEI, diversity, equity and inclusion. I mean, L'Oreal is one of the icons out there, what you are doing in DEI, both from the diversity, equity, and inclusion. And you have a wonderful partnership with UNESCO called for Women for Science as well, because we badly need more women in STEM, in science, technology, engineering, and math. Can you tell us more about your program with UNESCO and everything L'Oreal is doing to promote women and diversity, both internally and externally in science and beauty?
Nicolas Hieronimus: Yeah, so, you know, diversity, equity and inclusion are very, very important to me. I'm a true believer in the power of differences, of serendipity of people from different backgrounds, cultures,  races, genders,  and their ability to create ideas together and complement each other. And in the end, it's very consistent with what beauty is. Beauty is about allowing individuals to express their true personality, whether, you know, enhance the way they are, transform the way they are, or transform them into what they would want to be. So, DEI is very, very important to us.
We've been embarked on this for decades, but it's constant work because society is not always the most tolerant, so we have to play our part. That's why, for example, we have this Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Board with lots of experts and people representing all differences  that are challenging us a lot, and I always learn.
Myself, you know, probably the first decision I took when I became CEO was to bring more diversity into the Executive Committee. I recruited two managers from India, one from Mexico, a Franco-Tunisian, a Franco-Cyprus woman, and that brings a lot of difference. And we can always do better, of course, but that's very important to me.
And of course, amongst the difference and the diversity we have to also to acknowledge gender,  clearly, I would say that for L'Oréal working in beauty and serving women for 114 years, it kind of makes sense and it's normal that gender parity has always been at the heart of L'Oreal and at the forefront of who we are.
And today, we are recognized in the top companies in the world by Equileap on gender parity, whether it's on salaries or roles today. You know, if I take our top 300 positions, we've got 53% of women in these positions. More than 60% of our brands are led by women. The Executive Committee is still only at 30% but it's gonna get better. But overall we are, frankly, absolutely on top on this topic. And of course, but it doesn't stop there. There is also the topic, which is dear to my heart for many reasons, of LGBTQA+integration and safe spaces.
Of course, there are many different countries in the world that have different laws and attitudes as it relates to LGBTQA+ communities. And our role is to make L'Oreal a safe space for them, to represent them also in our advertising. And, so we fight for that. We are part of Pride. I've given recently, last week, an interview in the French magazine, têtu, where I explained precisely that it's the role of corporations, and to some extent of beauty also, to eliminate the differences and all the barriers between genders or sexual preferences.
So, it's a big commitment for me and for the company. And of course, you were referring in your question to For Women in Science, which is a  program that we've been celebrating the 25th anniversary of this year. So, it was started a long time ago by the brand Helena Rubinstein.And it's very important because, I think you'll agree with me, Ilham, that the world needs science and science needs women. And when we look at the results, to be honest, in 2013, women accounted for 28 percent of researchers.
So, it's quite low. And 10 years later, despite our own efforts and everybody's efforts, it's still only 33%. So it means that we have to continue to promote careers in science and also to work to make sure that these careers in science are encouraged and protected, whether in the family or in the cursus, which is not always the case.
So, it's a big commitment and I'm, but I'm very proud of what L'Oreal is doing in that direction, even though we can do better.

Favorite music and movies

Ilham Kadri: No, but thank you for inspiring us. I think you said it's beyond gender diversity, which is obviously close to my heart. I think you are bringing and inspiring all of us, Nicolas, under your leadership that is about diversity of background, of origins and orientation.
I mean, in my company, orientation was a bit taboo, and we did our own coming out a few years ago, but L'Oreal is really ahead of the game. And I think that's what the purpose is and the impacts you can have, not only on your employees and consumer customers, but other companies to also be inspired.
So, I can continue like this forever, but let us close this with some more personal questions and talk about the beautiful human being you are. I know you are the father of two children. I know you are curious. I know you are a reader because I've stolen some book names for my summer time when we met.
But I know also you are a big fan of art, rock, French electro. Obviously, you said you are a sportsman. So, tell me about - you're a movie buff and I know you're a big fan of Star Wars, for example. Is there anything businesses learn from Star Wars, or is just to, you know, to chill?
Nicolas Hieronimus: Well, um. It's true that II love music.
I sent a playlist to my employees before summer and I love movies. I like Star Wars, not my favorite movie. I'll tell you what my favorite movie is, but no, I think Star Wars is interesting, I mean, it's a fairy tale that's been told in many different ways across the history of literature and cinema.
But there's this idea of, several ideas that are interesting. I think it installs - one is the apprenticeship, it's to become a Jedi, you have to start being a Padawan and learn and grow and master the Force. And that's what we all do in our jobs. And then there's this idea that there's a force for good.
And that's what we are trying to do at L'Oréal and many others against the evil empire. I've always been a great reader of science fiction and a watcher of science fiction movies and I think what's fascinating is that what you see in the world today has been written and described decades ago.
I'm a huge fan of an American author of the fifties and sixties called Philip Dick. He wrote what gave birth to Minority Report and a few others, and there are a lot of things that are happening. So, it's sometimes a bit scary because not all books were very positive in their ending. But I think science fiction is a way to project your imagination. But to close on my favorite movie, it's got absolutely nothing to do with science fiction, but it tells another side of who I am. My favorite movie is Pulp Fiction from Quentin Tarantino. Because I like this blend of humor, very clever construction, great acting, and a bit of a funny and scary story at the same time. So, for me, it's a brilliant  movie. And I think I've watched it probably seven or eight times.
Ilham Kadri: This is a must- see, yeah, between Tarantino, John Travolta and Uma Thurman, if I remember. It's fascinating. Wow. Wow. Thank you. That was a fascinating conversation. Nicolas, you are again, such a beautiful soul and a brilliant leader, right? Leading again, for me, what is an iconic company and a beacon in terms of many, many aspects from this to sustainability and Profitability, and you truly exemplify the power of the end. You've definitely inspired me, and I'm sure you've also inspired all our listeners today. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and force for good, beauty for good. Thank you. 
Nicolas Hieronimus: Thank you very much, Ilham.
Ilham Kadri: Thank you

Well, I enjoyed today having Nicolas, CEO for L'Oréal, and what a delight, right? We learned a lot of leadership lessons from, you know, being at the top of sustainability and profitability, and that's what  L'Oreal is about. They are ahead in all matters and chapters of sustainability scope one, two, three, and they even inspire their suppliers and their customers, right, to go beyond and at the same time, what's a profitable company. What was amazing to me is to hear those tips, right, from a sportsmanship mentality CEO like Nicholas. Warming up on Monday, right, and not doing much of meetings, and reading your email, and taking time to onboard, right, and be respectful of the agenda of your colleagues.
I loved how he speaks about sports and the collective effort that creates the strong teams and the team spirit and, and, and, you know, ensuring that you play it as a team. I just love that. I loved  their focus on science. It's a science company. from day one and they live their purpose every day.
The For Women in Science is one of the flagship partnerships where they support bringing diversity, equity, and inclusion into science and obviously beauty. And I love his science fiction parts. The beauty tech company. He lives it in the company and he lives it outside the company because he's a fan of science fiction books and art.
But really, I love this transformation. So, the beauty tech company transformation he's leading in his company is just amazing. It shows that this type of transformation, what he calls tech for beauty, it's for us to use as an enabler to continue, you know,  progressing, to continue re-imagining, to continue reinventing a new progress for humanity.